Nexuiz Ninjaz - Practicing the Ninja Art of Nexuiz

This thread is outdated - you may want to check out the thread about the current servers here

SVN? lol wut?
SVN, or subversion control, is a way for developers to collaborate on code by checking it out from a central location and checking it back in when they have completed their changes. There are many systems that do this, SVN is just one of them. Alientrap just happens to use this (relatively popular) method. The only reason you need to know this, is to have an idea of how fresh the code is. Hot off Wednesday's presses, divVerent has posted a SVN build of Nexuiz. You can go directly to the download page here. You'll want nexuiz-NEWEST.zip for the complete package, nexuizpatch-NEWEST.zip to patch your Nexuiz.

This is like a (pre)beta version of Nexuiz! I has many new features you may have seen on different servers and some even newer ones you may have not.

- Team Radar
- Sexy Scoreboard
- Fun Sounds
- Sweet new hook

and many many more changes, fixes and awesomeness.


bestweapon and cycleweapon are no longer cmds, they have been replaced
You can read how to fix them here


Just filter the server list by ninja and join any of the 10-08-08 SVN servers



Some Details on Scoring
The SVN CTF Nexuiz Ninjaz servers are running with a new type of scoring that promotes teamwork and playing the field (defense, midfield, offense). I'm running a few test servers right now, there are a few things I'm working on tweaking but the basic jist is the following:

base_flag_pickup -5
This acts as a deposit because the flag carrier assumes a risk. This is to discourage players from repeatedly grabbing the flag and dying.

world_flag_pickup +1 for every 3 seconds the flag is down
This is to protect against a camper situation, if a sniper were to kill a flag carrier and his teammate picked it up, if this was a set number like 5, it would negate the sniper's earnings.

carrier_kill 5
Because this deserves a reward

flag_drop -5
Because this deserves a punishment

flag_return 3
This deserves a reward, but not as much as the kill. The most a player can get for a fc kill/return would then be 8.

flag_cap 30
To compensate for the deposit, fc gets 25 points.


Match time 12 minutes
I believe 20 minutes is too long. 10 minutes feels just a little too short. The 2 minutes after the 10 minute mark I believe gives players that added incentive of an obvious 2 minute window to player hard and fast.

score to win 7 caps
This may need altering but I think this feels about right for most maps.


Some points to address

I'll call this the 'camper clause', it's to fend against the argument, that if a camper were to snipe the flag carrier and his teammate were to pick it up, it would nullify the sniper's shot. (-5 fc kill, +5 world pickup).

Assuming you'll almost never get it on the 15 second mark, the highest players will usually get for picking up the flag after their teammate was killed, is 4 points (10-12 seconds), which I hope is an over estimate of the average time it takes your teammate to retreive a dropped flag.

This scoring system emphasizes the importance of defense.

I'm not sure I understand how this is true. You are most certainly punished for failed captures, a dropped flag is -5 points, a fc kill is +5 to the enemy and +3 for a return (not auto).


Original post from AT

Also, (some) servers echo chat to #nn.servers - accessible on chat.nn. Here you can communicate with players on the servers without joining.

At this rate, why not just take out the flags and play tdm?

Another wonderful contribution Tweak. Why don't you try playing it and understanding how it works before commenting?

Players are learning from this method. I was playing with some players last night, watching them understand and correct their negative point issue. Giving feedback where appropriate. This thread is to further explain the system.

Save your negative energy for some place else.

Seems more like a way to teach people to play all defense to me, sorry that having an opinion different than yours hurts your feelings.

You opinion is just that, an opinion. You never contribute anything but negativity and an attitude indicating that you can do better. You're wasting my time as well as others by filling up this thread with snotty remarks.

My opinion is backed by research, theory and (on-going) experimentation. My pilot studies indicate that the scoring system is beneficial to new players. It shows them the risks and the benefits to involved in playing different positions and playing as a team. Some people do get frustrated and leave, perhaps not understanding why they have negative points.

That being said, I think pro's can have fun with this scoring system (at least the ones who eat their vegetables).

This thread is here to help clarify and further develop the scoring system. If you don't have anything constructive to say, get out of this thread or at least have the courtesy to follow up in the related thread I linked to in the original post.

I think just captures is fine. Most of the times I played with this nobody was just greedy and didn't want to defend just to get all the glory. They all understand the part they play and how it helps with capturing the flag. I think this will work with beginners but not with pros.

This system is designed as a secondary point system to help you determine a player's contribution to the team. Ideally, only flag captures will count, to the limit 7 as I've noted above. This system is not _fully_ functional yet but I'm working towards it.

We can hypothesize whether it'll work or not to our hearts content but no matter how informed any of us think we are, we won't know the reality of it until we test. I plan on analyzing the logs when enough data is gather, after which we can reevaluate the situation and improve the system.

Negative attitudes aren't going to help define a better system. This is a foundation for which the Nexuiz Ninjaz CTF will be based off of. I do not plan on going to a "simple solution" until (unless) this system cannot prove its worth. Which as I've detailed above, my initial tests have already shown positive outcomes.

It is unknown to me how "pros" will treat the system. If you believe that it's affecting game play negatively, please provide me with a demo and explanation, hearsay is waste of time.

In your scoring system, if I pick up the flag, I lose 5 points, then if I get killed, the enemy gets 5 points, then if my teammate picks up the dropped flag, he loses 5 points, making a capture worth 15 points. There are a number of maps where this happens realistically 3 or 4 times (such as hydronex), such that if you kill the enemy flag carrier twice, you have nullified the entire score for capping (-5 for picking up, +5 for kill, -5 for pickup, +5 for kill, -5 for pickup, scoring a total of 5 points for capture).

You seem to be wanting to fix the game so that new players play effective defense. However, you have made the scoring system so biased against even attempting a flag run that there is no reason to even try it.

Have you played on the Phoenix server? There, only captures count. It is the most fun and most intense server that gets played. The reward for good defense: successful caps. Your team gets to win.

First, the development team wanted to reduce flag carrier speed to emphasize the importance of teamwork. Now, the team wants to punish the flag carrier for picking up the flag. This is all ridiculous. In football, the quarterback is useless without a good offensive line, but nobody can name the O-line on any team, while many people can name the quarterback of every team. In Nexuiz, the flag runner is like the quarterback, and the defenders are like the O-line. The fc gets more credit, but without a good team to back him up, he can't do anything. Sure, new players want to be the fc. But why should we make a game to cater to new players? Make the game so that it rewards experienced players.

On every server I have ever been on, the good players get the highest scores. If you design the scoring system so that the good players wind up with the lowest scores (for doing the thing that completes the objective of the game), don't you think it might drive some of them away from the game?

I'm not even going to bother responding to your rant in detail because I've discussed and explained this many other times in many other threads. I understand the math, I developed the scoring system. I into this but it's not perfect, however, the methodology certainly emphasizes the importance of teamwork.

If you have good teamwork, you don't need to worry about dropping the flag a bunch of times. In this system, the good players are also on the top.

You're all denouncing the scoring system before playing it. I don't think there is much to argue if you aren't even willing to try it out.

FOR THE THIRD TIME, only captures will count on these servers once I work out the bugs. The points are a secondary scoring system to help you understand how you and your teammates are contributing. This means, your quarterback is still your quarterback but your linesmen get acknowledged.

And again, please don't waste my time with hearsay. Provide evidence to your arguments, preferably a demo showing me how this system is flawed.

From what I understand, you want to be able to run into the enemy base, die 4 times but still gain points. I do not support this selfish mentality.